Thank you, Kurt. And good afternoon, everybody. Good afternoon, everybody. Greetings, greetings. Many, many years ago, I had the privilege to attend a prayer breakfast that the late E.V. Hill, an iconic Baptist preacher, was the featured speaker. And upon being introduced, he declared boldly and confidently, this is the day the Lord has made and I am glad to be wherever I am. That to me was a nod of gratitude to God for life, health, and free will because he had chosen to be there. I actually was invited to be here and I'm grateful for this opportunity to do so. You know, it's interesting as I think about having this privilege to having been invited to share with this esteemed group. But I'm not just grateful to be here. I'm also grateful because of who you are and what you represent. AOSSM, I'm grateful for what you all represent in education, expertise, innovation, knowledge, research, service, skill, and care. You know, as a former grade school, high school, college, and professional athlete who is currently, I like to say, in the mid-third quarter of my life's journey, my understanding of and appreciation for orthopedic consultation and expertise is real and significant and greatly appreciated. I've been given like a 10-minute shot clock before we get into our panel discussion. And I'd like to use that just to share some food for thought around leadership. Because that's a universal concept and principle in our life's journey no matter where we are or what we do. Leadership is something that we all are capable of. We all are leaders in our particular sphere. There are a lot of reasons that you're here, networking, education, fun, and the like. But I hope that part of why you're here is for your own personal development. Because that's what leadership is. Leadership as I look at it is influence. And I think all of us have places and spaces of influence. But it starts with how we lead and influence ourselves. I don't know how many of you are college basketball fans. I would assume some of you, maybe half of you or more, maybe have watched some segment of the NCAA tournament during March Madness. Okay, we've got a few folks that have agreed to confirm that they are basketball fans at the college level. But one of my colleagues is Seth Davis. He was a longtime writer at Sports Illustrated, currently writes for a sports publication called The Athletic. He's written several books, sports-themed books. And about four years ago, he wrote a book called Getting to Us, How Great Coaches Make Great Teams. And as he interviewed a dozen or so coaches, he came up with several characteristics of outstanding leaders and programs. And I just like to list a few of those as food for thought, because to me, the plain things are the main things. The basics never go out of style. They're always worth reviewing in athletics, in medicine, in education. The basics, as I broadcast for CBS, when I'm calling a game at a site in the Big Ten or the SEC, I have a standard uniform. It's a blue blazer. I must wear that when I'm on the air representing CBS calling a game four times. My shirt and tie and pants and shoes can be my own, but that blue blazer is official uniform. And blue blazers for men and even women must be part of your wardrobe. Basics never go out of style. They're always worth reviewing and revisiting. So leadership, influence, all of us have capacity to be influencers in our spaces and places. What are some of the characteristics? This is probably not anything new, some of these that I'm going to list off. But again, worth revisiting. And actually good self-talk for me, as I share with you. Persistence. Finding growth opportunities through adversity. My basketball playing career started at 10 years old in elementary school, went through junior high, high school, college, and then ultimately to the highest level you could get to. At 21, I was drafted by the Indiana Pacers as the eighth pick in the NBA. For the first two, three years of my career, I proved that I was a young, up-and-coming, capable player. But in August of 1987, I was in a room much smaller than this with our three-month-old daughter announcing that my basketball playing career was over because of worn-away cartilage in my left knee at the ripe old age of 26, after being drafted at 21, a career I thought would last 10, 11, 12 years was over in five. Painful, disappointing, heart-wrenching. But faith in God, support from my wife and others in my circle of influence, and a gratitude for what I have been able to realize in having that dream come true for me, helped me begin to move into the next phase. I think of all of you, the level of education, the work and the commitment, the certifications, the continuing education, the roadblocks, the challenges, the frustrations. I know many of you at some point in time perhaps didn't know if you were going to make it through. But somehow, some way, you found a way. Persistence, staying the course, taking advantage of opportunities to grow through adversity. Empathy. That's a universal characteristic that has value no matter where you are or what you do. Feeling what other people feel. Authenticity. True to who you are in words and actions all the time. Not on stage and all the time. Not perfection. Authenticity true in words and actions to who you are. Walking your creed. Walking your talk. The Bible says faith without deeds or actions is dead. A consistent alignment and agreement between our actions and our words. Knowledge. Plenty of it in this room at the highest levels. But knowledge is also competence, excellence, expertise in what you do. That is a capital that we all can leverage, not just for our good, but for the good of others. Humility. Others centered, others focused. Deflecting the spotlight, sharing the credit. All elements of being a good teammate. Patience. I love this definition I stumbled upon for patience. Enduring delay, provocation, waiting without becoming annoyed or upset. Persevering calmly when faced with challenges and difficulties. Patience is the companion of wisdom. Self-awareness. Know thyself, strengths, weaknesses, tendencies, trigger points, areas for growth. Examine regularly the why of what you do. I self-talk that way to me as it relates to broadcasting. It's an interesting profession, a glamorous profession, a fun profession, a seasonal profession. But why am I in that lane? I love it. I have experience and expertise that I can share with those who are watching games. I can share my journey as a player with the players I get a chance to interact with. I can engage with coaches and perhaps give them a perspective that they may not see because they're in the trenches. I'm a servant of the game that has given me more than I can ever give it. An education, a college education, places that I've been able to go through, basketball. I actually had a chance to play hoops with the sitting president who was the first black president in the United States because of basketball. His love for it, my position in it. I got invited to talk about the game and then give him an opportunity to beat me in a game of POTUS. If any of you saw that, I gave him that game. I couldn't go to the White House and take the president down on his court in a game of POTUS. That would not have been good TV. The reality is I was wearing him out. It was three letters to none when we first started. I said, I'm going to miss a few to give him a chance and then I'll still clip him at the wire. But any of you who have played sports or watched them with momentum flips, you can't get it back. That's exactly what happened. To this day, some of my peers that are members of the NBA fraternity look at me with disdain. How did you let that happen? I'm into good TV guys. Sorry, I let the fraternity down, but I've got a great memory that will last a lifetime and I can handle coming up one letter short. I'm closing in on my shot clock here. One or two other comments and then we'll be able to sit down and move forward. Come on face ID, there you go. I was on self-awareness. The why of what we're doing, not just the what. And then this quote is so, so good. Job skills are for effectiveness. Behavior skills are for impact and influence and lifelong success. The last one is gratitude. It is the parent of all virtues. For a grateful heart is a pliable, malleable heart. A grateful heart is a lifelong learning heart. A grateful heart is a heart that is willing and able to change for the better. Gratitude, self-awareness, patience, humility, knowledge, authenticity, empathy, persistence. Some of the attributes of good leaders, good teams, good programs. I close with a little antidote to kind of drive home the fact that we're all leaders, we're all influencers, and we all are always being watched by somebody else. Whether it's your spouse, your significant other, your children, grandchildren, colleagues, others, we're always being watched. Rosie and I have been married for 39 years now. I met Rosie when I was a freshman in college and we dated the three years I was there before I left a year early to go to the NBA and pursue the dream of being a pro player. Last week we celebrated our anniversary, had a nice early dinner, then we decided we have three adult children and three grandchildren. They live in the area where we live in Westerville, Ohio, right outside of Columbus. So after dinner, we decided to go by and see our oldest son, middle child, and his wife and two grandkids. This part of the moment they were around, we had eaten, so we went just to hang out and spend some time with them and had a wonderful evening. The next morning early, there's a text that Alex, our son, has sent us. And it said this, love you guys, such an inspiration for me and E, that's his wife, Esther. The commitment and love you guys show on a daily basis and a huge milestone anniversary. Happy anniversary. We're always being watched and we're always in a position to have influence on other people. We don't always know it, but recognize that's our reality. And we all have the capacity to lead and influence for good, ours and the good of others. And you all are doing that through your service, through your care, through your education. I applaud you, commend you. Thank you for giving me a little more than my allotted shot clock time. Thank you very much. Thank you. So do you, Clark, do you think Charles Barkley would have thrown the game to the president? I don't think he would have, but I'll tell you what, if I had a dollar for every time somebody asked me, what's it like hanging out with Charles Barkley? I would have, I wouldn't have to work at CBS. I started, I went back in the studio. I've been at CBS since 97. I was out calling the championship games from 2009 to 13. Prior to that, I was in the studio, went out for five years and went back in the studio in 2014. And that's when I joined Charles and Kenny and Ernie Johns and Greg Gumbel. And we've had a wonderful run. And the only thing I can tell you about spending time with Charles, authenticity, what you see is what you get with him, unfiltered, naturally funny. Our laughing muscles are overworked for those three weekends that we're together because he keeps everybody laughing in the most unpredictable, crazy way. Most I can't actually share with this group based on some of the language that flies around. But he's got a great heart, loves hoops, loves other people, and it's a real joy to spend time with him. But I figured I'd just take that off the table as a potential thought because I'm telling you, I get it pretty much regularly when I'm out and about. So just, I'll start it off. What do you think the funniest thing that you've seen in March Madness over the years that you can tell us? That's a great one, Kurt. I guess I go way back. It was actually within our studio. We kind of played a joke on Greg Gumbel, me and my producer. Greg is very much a by the book type of traffic cop. And that's what the anchor does, kind of make sure we get to where we need to get to and we're on task. And Greg is very much oriented that way. He likes to color by number, as I like to say. And he and I have been together since 98. But anyway, there was a period where we didn't have Turner as our partner, so we would actually try to take viewers from one game to another because you only got certain teams in your particular area, regionally based. And there was something we would call, it was called walk the dog, where you would move people around. We'd come in, we'd commentate for a minute or two, and then take you to other action. Greg hated it, hated it, despised it. I kind of loved it because it gave me a chance to kind of call the game from the studio. So we decided that we were going to make Greg sweat a little bit. So I actually went back into the brains of the control room and hung out with the producer. And they called Greg back to the desk and said, we're going to walk the dog in about two minutes. Where's Clark? And two minutes and 30 seconds go by. All right, we're getting ready to do this, Greg. Are you ready? Are you ready, Greg? We're going to do this in about a minute and a half. Greg is panicking. Where's Clark? Because I would be the one who would carry that particular segment. And I literally, literally, from the control room, looking at the monitor, could see sweat start to come down, cool as a cucumber, Greg Gumbel's forehead. And when that happened, I blew it because I couldn't stop. I laughed right into the microphone. And Jim Nance got me, too. When we're not on the air, we're watching the games, the lights go down in the studio. So that's a time to grab a snack, get something to eat. My first year there, Nance was in the studio. We got the lights down. I've got two hot dogs that the runners have brought to me. And I'm into my second hot dog. And Nance says, we're on the air live, and the lights come up. But we weren't on the air, thankfully. We were not on the air. Cassandra? So it's such an amusing story. You've seen so much with the NCAA. What do you see maybe in the future that could disrupt the ability of smaller teams to complete within NCAA against these bigger, well-established teams? Well, we've already had a separation in football. I mean, that's been on the docket for decades, really, in terms of the separation. And we've got about 120 teams that play football at the highest level. And that's outside of the NCAA. In terms of basketball, it has been much better from the standpoint of there still are opportunities for some of the smaller schools. Maybe not in terms of resources. Maybe not in terms of enrollment or attendance. But when you get to the nature of basketball, it's two rings, 10 people. And if you have players for a one-and-done situation, it's not a series, you can have some of the surprises. And that really is the magic sauce of the NCAA tournament. As a matter of fact, that's why Turner and CBS combined pay upwards of $850 million a year for the rights to that property. And so that is the magic. I think we're always going to have that element. There is some concern that with the conference realignment that's taking place, with just what happened with USC and UCLA, transitioning to the Big 10 in 2024, I think it'll be, and what's going on with the SEC, Texas, and Oklahoma, there does seem to be a movement towards power conferences. But I still think basketball has a chance to continue to be unique from the standpoint of the tournament and what makes it so attractive as a, as an event to the masses. Chris. So, um, Clark, first of all, thanks for taking the time to come. Oh, pleasure. Thank you. Fantastic. Thanks for having me. You've obviously had a lot of success and a lot of phases of your life. When a young basketball player, 13, 14 year old kid comes to you, but what advice would you give him? You got two minutes to tell the chat. I mean, I've had this opportunity a lot, Chris, with parents, our three kids all play college sports. They were all division one athletes. Our daughter's the oldest. She played volleyball at Georgia Tech. Our oldest son got a scholarship to Providence, gave up basketball after two years, um, and just got his degree and actually just finished, um, anesthesiology school is waiting for his boards to start working as an anesthesiologist assistant here sometime this summer. And then our youngest son played at Ohio university basketball and played overseas for awhile. So we went through that. My advice to all young athletes and their parents is expose your kids to sports. If they have an aptitude and an interest, make sure they get good fundamental instruction, age appropriate, not trying to professionalize them at nine, 10, 11 to no, give them age appropriate instruction for fun and fundamentals. And then if they choose at 14, 15, that this is something they're desperately in love with and want to do it, nurture their dream, but help them continue to develop in other areas. We try to professionalize little people. It's a disservice. It's one of the most heartbreaking things you have athletes turning away from the game at 13, 14, 15, 16, because they've been burned out. So my advice is play the game for fun and fundamentals and make sure that's the focus early on age appropriate. Then your kids will determine for young kids, play all of them. If you enjoy more, our youngest son played soccer. That was his favorite sport until middle school. But ultimately he chose to pursue basketball at the college level, but he played soccer from eight or nine years old until his junior year in high school because he enjoyed it. So do what you enjoy. And if you desire to take it another step, then make the commitment to do that. But I think kids should enjoy, there should be fun involved. Hey, I could not sleep the night before I knew I was going to the YMCA. I was like 11, 12 years old. Could not sleep. I'm so excited. After school, who's hanging out at the playground? Who wears the game? Couldn't sleep. That is obvious. Yeah, the passion. Passion, yeah. And kids should have fun playing sport. I'm sorry I went low, but this really gets me because I just see it so often. Sports should be fun. It should be about exposure. It should be about hanging out with your friends. And then at age-appropriate levels, as interest increases and desire starts to change, but otherwise, enjoy it. Master the basics of your game and have fun. That's my primary advice. Master the fundamentals of whatever you play and enjoy it. I think that's brilliant. Changing gears. I, like I think a lot of people in this room, I love college sports. Enjoyed it my entire life. With the introduction of name-image likeness, NIL, I'm going to share some thoughts, the good, the bad, concerns. Clearly, college sports is changing. Yeah, changing. And this is long overdue. Long overdue, Chris. You shouldn't be penalized for being on scholarship. And that's basically what was going on with name-image and likeness. A non-scholarship student-athlete, if he or she had the ability to leverage or monetize their name-image or likeness, could do it. Only student-athletes couldn't. And that's not right. That's not fair. So I'm happy to see it become the norm. Now, anytime something's new and uncomfortable, it's wild. It's unruly. And human nature says we're always going to have those who want to not only push the envelope, but want to go across to the other side of the line. So we're going to have to deal with that. But I truly believe it's a great educational opportunity for student-athletes. And not just the primary revenue drivers. That tends to get all of the attention. But what about the non-revenue sports, the women volleyball players, synchronized swimmers, gymnastics, wrestlers, and on and on and on, the Olympic sports? There are some unique stories unfolding with what those athletes, men and women, have been able to do because of name-image and likeness. Now, it's not the big mega deals you hear about in the news with football and basketball players. But $4,000, $5,000, $6,000 for running clinics, for instructing young women in volleyball, for doing positive things on social media. I mean, that to me is part of the landscape of education. So I look at it as a great educational opportunity. Sure, there's some disruption. And there's some elements of it that aren't appealing. But we can't allow that to keep us from harnessing and corralling the good that can be done. The key is going to be education. And not just of the student-athletes. The athletic departments, the businesses in those communities that want to be associated with athletes. And then also the institutions themselves. And do boosters and donors and supporters. So I think it's a great canvas for education. And I'm fully in favor of it. Empower student-athletes. Hey, they are on scholarship. And they give tremendous amounts of time to their particular sport. I actually had a summer job when I was in college, selling insurance. Because I didn't have to be around the campus all year long like many student-athletes have to be now. I like it. I really do. I know there's some elements. It's a little thorny. It's unsettled. It's unwieldy. We've got all kinds of different state legislation. But I think by and large it's good and a great canvas for creative and people that are intentional about serving student-athletes to be able to come up with a way to have it be beneficial and more additive and accretive than disruptive and destructive. Yeah, I think those are great thoughts. That's great. Bill? Great. Thanks for being here. Great to be here. Thank you. I'm going to go back to our last session, Game Changers. I know you were watching it back there and you wanted to run out here and be a part of it. But I just wanted to get your thoughts on how sports influences society with regard to diversity, equity, and inclusion. There's certainly obviously two sides. Some people say, hey, just be quiet and play basketball. Yeah. Sports has always been a forerunner of impacting and doing good for society at large. I know sports are games. But they also involve people that are connected and part of the society. And those people are human beings. They have feelings. They have issues. They have concerns. They have things they're in favor of and against. And when you talk about the long, ongoing struggle for equity and access and equality and inclusion, that's a fight that's been going on for hundreds of years. And it's not over. Improvement has been made. But I think sports has, I think we all have a responsibility wherever we are, but sports, because of how it's esteemed and the platform that it has, has even a greater opportunity and responsibility to promote the good sides of what equity and diversity and meritocracy can look like. And through actions and speaking out, athletes have impacted that. And we've had evidence of that over the years and decades. And I think even more so now with the various platforms that everybody has, athletes are starting to recognize the leverage and power they have for doing good in that space. And I think it's a responsibility we all have, quite honestly. And again, sports, because of its elevation and esteem in our culture and world, is a place where you can have some real impact and make a difference in combination with actions and words. Words are part of it, but then intentional actions to align with trying to move that needle forward to be more inclusive, to give folks more opportunities in all aspects, not only of sports, but in our society as well. So adding on to that then, so talking about sports as a community, this room is full of physicians who take care of that community. What can we do as a society to amplify that message and make it equitable, make it more diverse, make it more inclusive? Any suggestions? A few. Intentionality. First, the awareness that there's something that needs to be improved upon. And then intentionality around staying in the fight and making small steps. I think so much of it is education and exposure. As we heard from the prior panel, some of our physicians talked about having the opportunity to see role models, to be connected to mentors and role models, to see what was possible in this profession and industry around medicine and orthopedics and to see that. So I think it's important that we continue to provide access and exposure for those younger athletes and people that may have a desire to move in this direction and then encourage them that there's a lot of ways to be connected to sports in a meaningful, fulfilling, gratifying way that doesn't always involve playing, coaching, or broadcasting. And then those who are in those spaces, I always like to talk about our 20 square feet of influence, which we all have to represent the profession with excellence, with care, one fish at a time. And that goes a long ways. I know it doesn't seem to be, but that's all we have the opportunity to control and influence is how we present what we do, how we mentor those that are maybe coming behind us and those who potentially could come, how are we committed, how are we being committed to bringing along the next group, exposing others to what you do and how fulfilling and gratifying it is. So I think it's really the small steps around intentionality, access, and exposure, and then being able to align with programs, institutions that can actually start to bring about some of the other elements of it, pipeline. So again, I can go on and on a little bit, but I think exposure, education, access is really critical. And then being excellent at what you do, where you are always with an eye towards how can I influence others to come into this space that are maybe underrepresented? How do I have an impact and influence in my little circle of encouraging a young lady to look at being a trainer, to consider being a doctor? How might I influence that where I am? I appreciate that breakdown, because I think if you look at it as a big picture, it can be daunting. It can be overwhelming. You're so right, Cassandra. So looking at little fish, it helps. Yes, we have to, I mean, again, it's work. This is not microwave work. This is Crock-Pot work. It has to simmer and stew. You can't just hit a button, and you have to be able to acknowledge that progress has been made. Hey, not nearly as much as needed, but there are countless examples of progress being made. Now, there's work to be done. Never discount that and never ignore that, but understand you always have to be looking forward, but you also have to be in the present and also recognizing where you once were, and we have to make sure that we're doing that and being intentional. The other thing that helps, as I've been involved in serving on a bank board and with our Columbus Foundation as we talk about the lens through the equity and diversity, we call it IDEA, inclusion, diversity, equity, and access, and those are multilayered, and they're all integrated. So how are we impacting those things? And so one of the ways that you do that is sometimes through implicit bias training. You have some outside experts come in and put a lens on your organization or your team, and then they begin to help you see how you can take action steps to correct implicit bias, which we all have. All of us have it. All of us have it. So to have that awareness and then the intentionality and then get some training, but this is slow work. This is not news release earth-shattering work, but it's the work of the work. You can't get to where you want to get to if you're not doing that kind of stuff. I mean, an athlete, you guys know, I mean, you're physicians, that you don't get there overnight. You can't, you have to go through, and you have to be committed to hitting the rock every day. You've got to show up and hit it every day, a little bit at a time. It's almost like erosion. But you've got to be in that fight. So that to me is how we try to make a difference. And the other thing is we may not see the fruit of our labor. Us up here may not see it. We may see elements of it, but we may not see the end product, and we have to be okay with that. We have to be in the fight, making a commitment, being intentional, lining our actions up, doing things that can hopefully move the needle, but we have to recognize that we might not see it move. Moses did not get to the promised land. He didn't get there, but he set the way. So we have to be waysetters, intentional about it, and doing what we can to be waysetters. So we were listening into the Game Changers session before, we were listening to Joel, keeping an eye on Joel. You heard one, you heard Riley Williams say to someone else, you know, multiple people, you helped me, you were there to call. And so we talked about, is there a role, or should there be a role, for the society to be better mentors, particularly to people that when they're in the minority, within a group, that they know they can call someone, that they know they can talk to someone, someone understands that. How do you set up that? I mean, again, there are a lot of different ways to formally do mentoring. The important thing is that you have something that's consistent, that's long-lasting, and that folks are committed to. Because that research shows that those who achieve, particularly if they're underrepresented or face unique odds in moving forward in a profession or in an area, that mentorship is critical, because the road is hard. And so whatever you can do in aligning with organizations that do a great job in mentoring or establishing that, but the mentoring component is critical. I'm actually a long-time broadcaster now. It's hard to believe that I've been doing this for well over 30 years. So there are a number of young broadcasters that I've talked to about navigating this road. And I'm intentional about talking to young African-American men and women, letting them know how I share my experience, but I also try to give them advice as to how they can navigate their journey and then be available. But that mentoring component is significant and important, for people need to see others doing what they aspire to do. And when you can connect those who are doing it to those who aspire to do it in a meaningful way, then you've got a chance to sow the seeds that lead to fruitfulness. And so the mentoring component, I don't have specific advice other than to say there are examples of organizations, institutions that do a really good job of it, universities that have alumni associations that do a really good job of career transitioning and the like, but there are examples out there. But having a mentoring component that's supported and that's a priority, I think is one of the foundational pieces to trying to move that needle when you're talking about inclusion and diversity, equity and access. I think it's a critical, you can't, I think it's a pillar on that tree. So Clark, you look back on your life, what events or people really influenced you? Well, it started with my mom and dad. I'm the oldest of five. I've got a younger brother and three younger sisters. My dad was a longtime Cleveland police officer. My first organized basketball was with him as my coach in the Police Athletic League. You have to be fairly seasoned to remember the Police Athletic League. If you're of a certain age, you might not be familiar with PAL, but if you're a little more mature in your life's journey, you might be- Third quarter. Third quarter, yeah. You could possibly be, you could maybe be halftime. Halftime and beyond, you might know about PAL. But anyways, Police Athletic League, it was a great, great, great organization because it allowed policemen to be involved in coaching sports in the neighborhoods where they work. So it gave kids an opportunity to see policemen as people and not just somebody in a uniform. My dad was a Police Athletic League coach for football and basketball, and that was my first organized exposure to hoops, and I fell in love with it. I loved football initially, but that was a little too physical for my liking, and I gravitated to hoops. And plus, my body ended up being more suited to basketball. But my mom and dad, my mom was a homemaker until I was a freshman in high school, and then she started working in a local hospital. My grandparents, all of my extended family in Cleveland was near, had all four of my grandparents until I was 33. A lot of time with them around family gatherings. So just my parents initially, first and foremost, and then I had tremendous teachers and coaches at every level. I remember African-American sixth grade teacher, Mr. Burroughs. Then I had African-American basketball coach in middle school and art teacher in middle school, Mr. Conley, Mr. Junior, coached the basketball team. Really supportive and really good instructors for me, and countless other coaches along the way that kind of fed and nurtured my desire, but it was family primarily. Those were the folks. And then as I got into basketball, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, he was Lou Alcindor when I first met him through books and TV as a youngster growing up in Cleveland. He was doing his thing at UCLA, and then ultimately the Bucs. But I read a lot about him and his activism, his intelligence. He was the first big guy I saw that was extremely graceful. He could move, and I couldn't believe he was that tall and moved. I wore 33 my whole career because of him. That was the number that I wore throughout my playing career, and it was because of Lou Alcindor, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. So those were folks. And I looked at other players as I developed my game that were kind of like me, ball handling forward. But it was my parents and family primarily, then some tremendous teachers along the way, teachers and coaches. So in your career, you mentioned it in your speech, and unfortunately, you had the knee problem. And athletes handle injuries differently, just like people do. I mean, everyone does. I just wanted to get an idea in terms of sometimes athletes go into depression a bit. Sometimes they have some other issues that they struggle. And I was just wondering. Yeah, you know, the identity crisis piece is real for all of us in some form or fashion, whether we're transitioning from early life to midlife, single to married, whatever it might be, any of those life changes are. But the identity piece for athletes, particularly for pro athletes, is a real challenge. Because it's a Peter Pan world that you live in. Because of the adulation, the income, the notoriety. And if you're not intentional about growing up, you don't have to. I was fortunate. I think some of it is birth order. A lot of research has been done on birth order. And I was the oldest, so I have a lot of characteristics of a first sibling, first child. Wanted to make my parents proud. Wasn't too afraid of being different. And valued education and trying to be a good person. And early on, I had my parents and other people, instrumental people in my life, talk about basketball as a means to an end, not the essence of my life. Now, I blurred that line, chasing my dream, which is the case for most. You blur it, I mean, that becomes all-consuming. But I had a mentor who's still a dear friend in business that helped me see the bigger picture as I got to high school and even into college. And so I was kind of anchored into this idea that basketball was gonna end at some point and I needed to be thinking about how I could be productive and successful whenever that came. I wasn't expecting it to come when it did, obviously. So that was difficult. But my faith in God, I came to Christ as a Christian in 1986, August of 87 is when I had to announce my retirement. My faith in Christ really was the anchor, my wife as well, other men and friends that came alongside to encourage me in my new faith walk. That really anchored me as I made that decision, well, was forced to make that decision to retire. And then my life became bigger from the standpoint of this chapter was over. And it was gonna end at some point. John Thompson says, don't ever let your life be defined by the air in a nine pound ball. That air is coming out. So don't let that be the essence of what defines you. So I had people reinforcing that with me and I took it to heart as well as a 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 year old kid could, it was always there. And then when it happened, and then I grew, started to grow in faith, that really secured me in knowing that God had my future, whatever it held, and that there was a lot of life. And I had realized a dream, gratitude was a part of that too. I mean, there were tears now, Joe. I mean, we cried. I mean, I was, I didn't go, I didn't hit depression, but I cried for the sense of loss. I mourned the loss of doing something that I so enjoyed doing and didn't have a chance to kind of see what my potential could have been in the game. So I still have that regret. Never made the playoffs in the NBA. That's a different level. You know, those kinds of things, but by and large, like I said in my remarks, basketball has given me more than I could ever give it. And I tended to lean into my faith and to gratitude as I moved forward. And then I was fortunate, I got started in broadcasting two months after my retirement. I started doing Indiana Pacers radio. Pacers wanted me to stay connected. I wanted to stay connected to the organization and team. They said, this might be a way for you to help us and us to help you. And I wasn't very good at the beginning, but I was committed to get better and working at it. Started with radio and moved on to TV with the Pacers for 20 plus years and the college stuff for almost, well, 30 plus now. But yeah, faith and family and the big picture that had been kind of reinforced through some of my mentors had taken hold and I was able to transition reasonably well. So Clark, a little bit lighter than talking about your career ending injury. You've had, you talked about your passion and love of the game as a young man. What's your fondest or most gratifying memory in your athletic career? Was it? Oh, there are a couple in my athletic career, but my greatest basketball memory happened when our son Nick was at OU. He was a sophomore on their team and they got to the Sweet 16 in the 2012 tournament. That has moved to the top of my memory list in terms of joy in the game. To see him and his team be part of March Madness in an unbelievable, unforgettable way for him and our family and for me personally, I've put that at the top of my list because there's nothing quite like seeing your children and fulfill dreams or make memories or do good. And that, because of what basketball has been in my life and what the tournament continues to be, to have him have a indelible moment with a small school run to the Sweet 16 is way, it's at the top. That's at the top. Being drafted, my parents were able to go to New York with me, my wife to be. We weren't married at the time she was able to go. That was her first plane ride. We're in the New York felt form waiting for my name to be called. And finally after seven other picks I'm called and just the realization of that dream. I still get excited every year at draft time for those players and families because 40 years ago I was there and I know what that feels like. And it's an unbelievable accomplishment. So being drafted, really had a great high school career with great teammates and put our high school on the map in basketball. We didn't win the state championship. We lost in the finals, but the school went on to win multiple championships after that and having a chance to be part of the group that was kind of a foundation for future success rings pretty good. But those are probably three of them that I would put above any others, I think, yeah. Now what about, so you've been on the sideline literally for 40 years of the game. So from taking it from the personal aspect of what the greatest history is, what have you witnessed on the sidelines as you would say some of the greatest, I guess, moments in NCAA basketball? There've been so many over a playing career that was only five years in the NBA, but three years in college and then high school four. And then as a broadcaster, obviously I've tripled that. And I spent my first, I spent 22 years calling Indiana Pacers games on television. Reggie Miller was drafted the summer I had to retire. So I didn't get to play with Reggie, but I got to cover just about all of his career, all of his career as a player. Saw him score 57 points in Charlotte. And that was a great, great memory to see him. Saw those teams, the Indiana Pacer teams, the 2000 team get to the finals and lose to the Lakers. Saw another great team dismantled because of the malice in the palace in 2004, potential championship team. A big brawl happened with the Pistons and Pacers. That team was championship material. A lot of great playoff memories calling Pacer games. At the college level, probably the first game, the first time I was able to call the national championship game. Billy Packer, long time iconic broadcaster, Hall of Famer, had done the final four for three plus decades and probably 27, 28 years with CBS. But when he retired in 2008, I got a chance to be Jim Nance's partner for five years, 09 to 13. And the first time I got to do that in Detroit, North Carolina, won the championship, but having a chance to call the final four for the first time, it had always been a dream and aspiration once I got into broadcasting to maybe be able to be courtside for that. So that was pretty special. And then being courtside, I wasn't calling the game on TV, but I was calling it on radio for Westwood One when Chris Jenkins hit the buzzer beater three to win a national championship for Villanova against Carolina. That is way up there too, to be courtside win. And then the Hoosiers, going back to the small school, the Butler almost beat Duke in 2010 in Indianapolis in the final four when Gordon Hayward lofted a half court shot. And then Jim Nance's famous call, almost went in because it hit the backboard and came out. And you talk about a Hoosiers, that was a Hoosiers weekend anyway, because of Butler being based right in central Indianapolis, five miles from the stadium maybe. And them being able, that was their first run to the final four, 2010, they got back in 11th. But the city, that final four was as electric as any final four city that I've ever been to in the 25, 26 years I've done final fours. It was on fire in Indy. And they almost pulled the ultimate David Goliath because they played Duke in that championship game. So those are a couple of the memories that kind of stand out. So now you're getting close to the top of your game with regard to broadcasting and a well-known celebrity. I'm wondering what's next. Like, do you have any desire to do other sports? Like, I mean, we've seen Charles do hockey. Charles is a great sports fan. I've seen Brian Gumbel do all kinds of other things. I mean, do you have any desire to sort of- No, when the train comes to its last stop for me at CBS as a broadcaster, I think that'll be it. I'm not sure when that'll be, but clearly it's closer than it used to be. There's far more ground behind me than in front of me. It'll be time for somebody else to be in that seat fairly soon. But no, I have no desire. I'm sports specific. I like a lot of sports, but I only have my PhD in one sport, and that's basketball. So I realized that as a guest commentator maybe, but no, no, I have no desire to move into another sport. I do have a desire to teach and mentor in maybe a more formal capacity. Not sure what that'll look like, but that is something I think will be in my future when broadcasting goes away. So Clark, I guess you want to follow up, Chris? I was just gonna say, I was about to ask you, did you ever contemplate coaching? I did not. Coaching is always on you. It's extremely rewarding, but it's extremely demanding. And I got on this path to broadcasting quickly after I retired, and it fit me. I've always enjoyed English and reading and communicating and words. Was always a student of the game when I played. I read about players way before me. My dad and I would talk about some of the great players that he had watched. So I was always pretty much a student of the game. And even as a player, I enjoyed breaking the game down. So it fit me. And when I got started in that profession, I felt I could be good at it and I could add some value. And I just wanted to see how far I could go with it. And so that's fit me. And now that I know that broadcasting is fully immersive for six and a half months for me, I start preparing in early October, filling up my book and watching games. And then I'm buried in it until we crown a champion in April. And I kind of like CBS not calling me from April until November and me not having to check in with them. I've kind of gotten accustomed to that. And I kind of enjoy it. So no, it's a good fit. I'm grateful. I really am. Been a fun way to stay connected to the game and hopefully add some enjoyment and knowledge to the people that are watching. So Clark, we're very grateful for you to be here and share a lot of insights and a question for you. We've peppered you with a lot of questions. You've answered them. Do you have any questions for us? Why don't we flip the tables? Do you have a question for- Yeah, you know, there were a couple of, in some of the material I got, there were a couple of acronyms. I don't know. Where's my, let me see. We don't have any acronyms. Yeah, you have almost as much as the banking industry, as a matter of fact. So let me, if you can just bear with me to go through my little email. Because you know, any question you give me, I can't answer, I'm going to give too. Okay, yeah. So I would think between the four of us, we might be able to track it down. Let me see. So tonight, Clark has also been gracious to be the guest speaker at the Robert J. Gladden Orthopedic Society meeting that's happening this evening too. And we're really very, very grateful for him to do that. Well, since I didn't bring, okay, hold on. Okay, here we go. Oh no. It goes to show us how well sometimes we do some patient education with all of our acronyms. So when every time we want to educate patients, we have to have someone else read it first. Let me see, I thought I had it in here. Oh, I'm having a tough time tracking it down now. 50 years though, this is kind of a milestone. Milestone. Conference, yeah. How often do you rotate presidents? Once a year. Oh, once a year. Yes. Every year there's a new president and they say the best job is past president. Now, are most of the attendees orthopedic surgeons or are there other? It's probably a 90% orthopedic surgeons. And then there's a group of athletic trainers. Okay, I figure, okay. And some PhDs that are here too as well. But they are. And the research component. Yes. How does that fit into what the society does? Well, the clinical research is the education, right? So the clinical research generates the evidence and the evidence is what we want to try to, as much evidence to apply to our patients. So we want to try to apply the best. Realizing that it's an art and a science, mostly an art of what we do, but we want to try to create as best a database, kind of like baseball is a database for how they pick people and everyone else. And medicine has a database by doing clinical research studies to figure out what the best treatments are for athletes. What's the best graft choice? What's the best operative and non-operative treatment for shoulder injury and so forth. We haven't solved the fact that we cannot put new cartilage in the knee yet. No, no, no. But the gel and the SynFix, some of that stuff helps. Yeah, I'm actually functioning better than my knees look on the X-ray screen. Thanks to good care from Grant Jones, my orthopedic consultant at Ohio State. And I think, there he is. There's my man right there. Yeah, he's taking good care of me, keeping me moving better than my X-rays look. So we're going to keep fighting the good fight. I want to ask each of you though, as you come to this annual meeting, what are you hoping to see happen and what are you hoping to take away? I think I would pose that to each of you as- Take that first. Yeah, I mean, I think, well, there are a couple of things. Like you said, it's multifaceted. I think someone had mentioned earlier in a previous presentation that for us, it's when you get to be my age, it's family. I mean, we grew up with each other for the last 30 plus years. And our mentors, I mean, we've seen them move on and retire and the like. So, and the young people coming behind us, we see them continue to grow. So it's a constant transition, but it is family. I mean, even though we see each other just a few times a year, we all have gone through the same gauntlet and we have done the same things. And so it's not, you know, it's just another part of your family. The other thing is, it is, it's the, it's, I mean, we want to consider ourselves the best at what we do from a research education standpoint. And so we want to be here. We want to continue to push forward the science, you know, as Kurt just mentioned a minute ago. And, you know, just like our family before us, you know, now we're carrying the mantle and we want to continue to do that. And the younger people will carry it after that. So it continues. And we, and the whole idea is to make patients better or help them with their injuries and return to play and those kinds of things. So that's what I get out of it. And I would echo that, coming to see our colleagues, our friends, and they are like family. And then Joel and I knew each other 30 years ago and neither one of us had gray hair at the time, but now we have junior partners and friends and hopefully we can help mentor them and we see, meet them here. So the social interaction, human interaction is a big part of the society, I think. Number two, I'd like to hear the research and help continue to evolve my understanding. Hopefully I can understand more about the musculoskeletal system, care of athletes, and do a better job at what we do back home. And then maybe trigger an idea, ooh, you know, good research stimulates more research questions. There's always something more. Hey, that's an idea I may want to take back to my home institution. Maybe we'll do a project to try to answer that question and continue to contribute to the advancement of the field. This is a great meeting. And when you talk about trying to be excellent and strive to be the best, I think that's one thing I always try to come to these meetings is to learn a little bit something, take a little piece of something, bring that back so I can be a better clinician, better surgeon, treat my patients better, have better outcomes. So that's number one goal. Number two goal is, I mean, I'm going to echo the exact same sentiments. It's, this is family. This is who is, these are the people that are helping me grow and learn and develop me professionally. And so I'm kind of in that middle point where I'm, I think I'm still growing, but at the same time, I can also see my residents, my fellows, where I can start paying it forward to them. So it's kind of, it's, I got a foot on both sides. So that's a nice part. But this is, it's like, it is a homecoming. It is just meeting with colleagues and it's just, it sparks innovation. It sparks curiosity, sparks, yeah. It, that's just the excitement of this meeting. I think it's all those things and I agree with that, but there's an in-person meeting. There's the intangibles of what happens after the actual formal presentation and after the discussion and how do people talk about it and how do they interact and how they meet one-on-one. And I, sometimes the real learning and ideas and the exchanges come through with that. And I think that's what's, what's to make special about this culture that, you know, everyone, if they have, if someone's a member of AOSSM and they're a team physician and they're having an issue, they should be able to call another member of AOSSM to say, help, help me out, give me an idea, do that. And I think that creates a culture of trying to, always try to improve, be excellent and provide care, advocate for our athletes and really to be the, we're there to protect them. We're there then to return to play safely and think about them. So, so I want to just thank Clark and round of applause for Clark and the panelists for a great panel. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Greg.

Clark Kellogg

professional basketball player

leadership

persistence

empathy

authenticity

knowledge

gratitude

personal stories

retirement